Michigan Rotary Club
Generation Specific => 2nd Generation Specific => 2nd Generation Build Thread => : FCwidman May 21, 2017, 03:56:39 PM
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So I have yet again bought another motor to build, only this time it is unfortunatly not a rotary engine. My buddy had a 4.8l ls sitting in his garage and needed it gone so i gave him a few doll hairs and now its torn apart in my garage at school.
This time a have a better job and I'll have a job at school and will have much more free time to work on this project, so hopefully it doesn't end up like my s4 motor that I bought and get parted out. The engine has 230k on it and was pulled because it had a gnarly lifter tick, we thought that a cam lobe or lifter would be destroyed but everything in the engine looks pretty darn good for 230k,
This brings us to whats getting built on the motor,
-Cam(obviously) thinking ls6 or texas speed has a good deal going right now
- Lifters/pushrods
- Ls6 valve springs or the dual spring ones in the texas speed kit
- Ls1 intake or some aftermarket one that'll fit under the hood
- fbody oil pan and pulleys
- Leaving the bottom end stock, pistons and rods look perfect, I'll probaly get new rings
though
Now I'm not sure if I'll be getting another fc shell or ruining my silver one yet, but if anyone comes across a cheaper clean roller (coupe or vert) thats not a million miles away let me know. Been looking at the grannys speed swap kit but was informed the ronin? mounts were better and gave more exhaust clearance. oh and also in the market for a used t56 if anyone knows of one.
I dont have too many pictures of the progress, cause we tore it down in about a day. but heres my table set up
(http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t654/jwidman14/IMG_2732_zpss6ng8ryi.jpg) (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/jwidman14/media/IMG_2732_zpss6ng8ryi.jpg.html)
heres the only pic I have before the tear down
(http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t654/jwidman14/IMG_2726_zpswcsru313.jpg) (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/jwidman14/media/IMG_2726_zpswcsru313.jpg.html)
Not too much progress will happen to the motor since it is in Big Rapids and I am back home in metro Detroit but that wont stop me from ordering a butt load of parts, so more pics of parts of as they come but for now if any one has some tips on what to get for the motor or for whatever chassis it goes into, let me know!
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Can't wait to hear more on this, hoping you also find another shell for this too, everyone needs at least 2 RX7s.
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Hopefully I can get that t2 this weekend, also does anyone know anything about harness fitment? Will a truck harness work with ls1 intake and injectors or should I just get an ls1 harness. I'm pretty sure everything is the same except injector clips and tb.
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The truck harness will work fine. What trans are you going to run?
I have f body exhaust manifolds and ls1 heads. I also have ls6/ls3/ls9 valve springs and a bunch of other stuff too.
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T56 off an f body or whatever I can find, only thing I have right now for the swap is the actual engine. If I don't go with the Texas speed kit, I'll buy those springs off you, also how much better are the ls1 heads? I'm not looking to make a butt load of power just trying to keep the budget to a minimal. Manifold wise I havnt looked too much into it yet but saw a few things about a poor man's header? Definitely want some aftermarket mid or long tubes tho.
Any chance you have an f body oil pan or pulleys?
Also with the harness(which I don't have, nor pcm) I want to switch to cable tb, so any 98-03 harness should work?
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By the sounds of what you are talking about, headers will just increase engine bay temp and possibly leak.
Juse make sure you get a harness for a gen 3 with rear cam sensor and valley mounted knock sensors. You can just remove the electric throttle body portion and anything to do with trans if you get one that was used on an auto. Manual is better though because you can operate the reverse lock out.
If you find you need a hand modifying the harness and getting it ready for the rx7 let me know.
And yes the ls1 heads are better. I also have injectors and possibly and an intake manifold.
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ehat other options are there for headers? I just figured I'd toss my rusty truck manifolds and get something tubular, was gonna wrap them anyway
I get that ls1 heads are better, but is it really worth spending money on if I'm only looking for like 300 ish wheel, but let me know how much you'd want for the heads and Intake stuff
Also just checked out the ronin swap kit, cheaper than granny's but didn't say anything about sway bar spacers in the complete kit, is it not needed with their kit?
Gonna hit up some junkyards and for sale pages for a pcm and harness soon, also might be picking up my donor car this weekend
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If you are only looking for 300-400hp the ls1 manifolds are fine. I'd sell mine for $100.
You mentioned putting a bigger cam in, that's why I suggested the heads. A bigger cam will call for better heads to get the most out of the cam. What casting number heads do you have? If you have 243 or 799 I would stick with those, but very few 4.8s had those. If you decide you want the ls1 heads I would sell them for 200 assembled as stock or 250 with new blue springs for a bigger cam.
I would sell the intake with injectors for 150.
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I don't recall what heads I have, I'll have my roommate snap me a pic. I've got my stock truck manifolds which look about the same, and my dad might still have his stock manifolds from his camaro.
Do you have the fuel rail too or will my truck rail work?
And I'm thinking I'm gonna order the Texas speed cam kit this weekend which comes with springs, what can do you think would work well if I do have the 243 heads? From scimming around ls forums I was thinking something around a 220/220 112lsa
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Roomie went and looked at my heads for me, got the old 862's. So I might buy those heads off you, are they 243,799, or 823?
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awfc3s has a good setup with a 4.8, he could probably send you a video of his car running and his specs over Facebook. It sounds pretty good. I'll try to get him to post something on here.
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Truck manifolds don't fit.
My heads are 823s
What are your goals besides 300 hp? Is it going to be a daily driver or a race car? How do you want the idle, smooth or rough? Where dweeso you want your power range?
All those things impact the cam.
We put a 4.8 in Andrews car because the plan was to turbocharge it. He has a TSP 224 cam in his car and the idle is fairly rough, also he has a set of ported 5.3 heads on his engine. I believe he put down 265 to the rear tire.
I would still suggest the blue springs as long as you are going to stay below .590 lift. They are oem validated and are a very durable part.
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Hmm, he told me he put down 305 or 310 whp, maybe he was calculating crank hp.
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You're right it was 305, I think Kevin car made 365 that's where I got mixed up.
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If I was building a 4.8 I would turbo it or make it rev to 8 grand. Either is expensive. A stock ls1 can be had for about a grand. Unless you need the cast iron block or the shorter stroke it's a lot more cost effective to get 350 hp by just buyin and ls1.
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://detroit.craigslist.org/wyn/pts/6134846162.html
Guy is asking 1200.
By the time you get the exhaust manifolds, intake, injectors, throttle body, fuel rails, water pump, oil pan and pick up,harmonic balancer pulled, heads, cam head gaskets, valve springs and descent ignition coils you are going to be well over a grand for less power and less potential.
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I have no real goals for the engine other than for it to run, I got the engine for a case of beer and some pizzas, my original plan was to just throw new lifters and cam in it and get it to fit in an rx7 or put it in my truck eventually. The rx7 route will just be a mess around car depending if I put it in my current Fc or get a beat up one,
And who knows maybe boost will be in the future, just kinda rolling with whatever happens,
I think I'm sticking with the original plan of just new lifters, cam and springs for now, I'm taking an engine machining class in the fall so maybe I'll wait to do something with it in the fall so maybe I'll do something with it in there, definetily cleaning the block in the hot tank before I paint it some obnoxious color
Been trying to get my silver Fc back on the road kinda makes me wish I would just build the rotary and Make the car pretty again
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As some of you already know, the ls didn't go into the fc.
Went to put the car in the garage for the winter, checked the oil and noticed coolant. about an hour later the engine was on a stand ready for teardown.
(https://i.imgur.com/QmVf3fs.jpg?1)
Did lots of cleaning and sand blasting at my schools engine shop, notice the ls isn't gone just shoved out of the way until I can afford to rebuild it
(https://i.imgur.com/hQQC3bJ.jpg?1)
My end goal was to have the car running and driving the 2nd week of March, my Spring break. I believe I pulled the engine out the weekend of or before Halloween, so roughly 5 months. Decided to go with a half bridge and street port. used pineapple racing ep2 exhaust template and mazdatrix 6port bridge and street port. This was my first time ever porting anything, let alone a rotary. It definitely could of used a few more hours of smoothing and runner work, but I'll save perfection for the next one.
cut the diffusers out
(https://i.imgur.com/1zq97WD.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/WRo8V4n.jpg?1)
I did end up screwing up the center iron, but luckily murz had an s5 iron laying around and I didn't screw that one up.
(https://i.imgur.com/sz6k2BD.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/EXBb1jl.jpg?1)
Apparently I didn't take any pictures of the bridges when I was doing it, this is the only one I took right before assembly.
(https://i.imgur.com/4vMtmC3.jpg?1)
I also decided I wanted to try and tuck the body harness since I was also moving the battery to the passenger storage bin, my original plan was to run it between the fender and body but I ended up not thinking it would fit so I just re-wrapped it in nicer looking loom and relocated the fuse box from the strut tower to in front of the radiator. I got rid of a few connectors like the suspensions adjustment and the horns that never worked and just cut the wires and taped them up.
(https://i.imgur.com/hSQbw9B.jpg?1)
Gave the engine bay a quick respray in arctic silver.
(https://i.imgur.com/nwcxc3n.jpg?1) (https://i.imgur.com/JXPQBR6.jpg?1)
Don't have any pictures of the harness, but heres the new fuse box location.
(https://i.imgur.com/EpJ9Xf1.jpg?1)
This is the new engine color scheme, I decided to build the engine in my room which is in the basement.... horrible idea.
(https://i.imgur.com/RtXvBf1.jpg?1)
my roommate helped me carry the engine up the stairs and into the garage, either I miss judged the weight of the engine or we're both horribly out of shape.
(https://i.imgur.com/ezuOiMY.jpg?1)
poof the engine went
(https://i.imgur.com/iWBPt63.jpg?1)
After I got everything together, fixed a few grounds and re organized the battery wires and it started.... then died. One by one each injector decided to leak after I would fix the one before it. Finally got all the injectors and lines to hold and now it runs and drives. my header is leaking pretty bad so it sounds like a tractor but the brappy idle is nice.
Car is still on the stock ecu and stock injectors so I haven't pushed the car at all, after I graduate in May I'll get a standalone (still undecided which one) and maybe new injectors..... possibly itb's 8)
But I got the car running exactly on my dead line and made it to my first weekly meet at ferris.
(https://i.imgur.com/bBReAAF.jpg?1)
What's the best way to upload a video clip?
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Here's a couple short clips of the car.
https://youtu.be/j3PpA1lBivo
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So the car has been running pretty good so far but recently after driving for a couple minutes it will start to break up if im driving below 3500. It misses and leans out (15-16) but the second it hits 3500 rpm it runs perfect. Doesnt matter the throttle position either just rpm.
Any ideas? Injectors maybe?
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Fuel maybe? 3500 is when the ecu kicks the secondaries on i think. Might not be enough fuel down low?
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That was my thought, i was thinking one injector was sticking but it idles perfect, secondarys dont come on at idle do they?
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The secondaries only kick in at 3500. They aren't on at idle. Maybe a bad/broken wire to the primary injectors or poor grounding from the keg to the chassis?
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Which injectors do you have in the primaries and secondaries?
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Still stock injectors in both, I'm gonna go through and clean/tighten all the grounds when I get a chance
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Probably needs a standalone ecu and a tune.
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What ECU do you plan on going with down the road? I think Kevin is switching from Megasquirt, not sure if he's selling his old setup.
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Yeah a stand alone is in the future, but I dont think thats what wrong. Just drove the car for about a half hour and it didnt act up, must be a loose connection somewhere. Or I just remembered I still dont have the map plugged in.
I havnt decided on which ecu yet, originally I was gonna do ms but Ive been looking into adaptronic recently
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Add another ground from the block to the chassis, see if that helps more long term.
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Got the car to act up again, pulled it in the driveway and plugged in my broken map sensor and it went away, not sure if its related or just a coincidence. Hopefully it starts up later with the map plugged in
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Strange. With the MAP unplugged, I think it defaults to thinking the car is always under load, but I'm not sure how that would affect it, unless it richness the fuel mixture? Ever look at the spark plugs?
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Ive pulled the plugs maybe 5 times since the rebuild to clean them off, they dont look bad yet
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I would suggest you at least get a wideband on there to have some idea of what is going on with fueling.
You are taking in a lot more air and you haven't changed the fueling.
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I have a wideband..... it idles at mid 13's when warm and is in 12's at wot, when it acts up anything under 3500rpm under any kind of load it leans out to mid 14's and has jumped up to high 15's and I can hear it missing and stuttering. Once it hits 3500 and the secondarys come on it jumps back to 12's.
From what ive read stock fuel set up should be fine for the time being, eventually I wanted to put in a more modern injector but probably wont go much bigger
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Is it everywhere below 3500 or near 3500 that is misses?
I might try grounds as Marcus mentioned. I don't know how many engine grounds you have now but having 2 doesn't hurt. Also have have seen where people tie an additional ground to the ground wire on the pressure sensor to fix hesitation.
Also, I'm assuming you didn't have this issue before the swap. So I would think it could be something installation related like an engine ground.
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Everywhere under 3500 except idle. I only have one ground currently and was going to put another on the other side of the engine.
Yeah car ran normal before the build, but it also did about 200 miles on the build before it started acting up, all without the map plugged in
For the additional ground on the pressure sensor, do mean just splice it inline with the ground wire and run it to chassis , or is their a common chassis ground that can be relocated closer?
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Not sure this will fix your issue but it sure won't hurt.
https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generation-specific-1986-1992-17/pressure-sensor-ground-3500-hesitation-fix-572799/ (https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generation-specific-1986-1992-17/pressure-sensor-ground-3500-hesitation-fix-572799/)
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I think first off I'm going to replace the sensor with one that actually works, hopefully I land a job soon and can get a standalone before the dream cruise
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are you sure its MAP sensor related? wasn't it working fine before the swap?
you need a snazzy rtek or something to control the fuel.
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Sometime during the build the pressure sensor vac nipple broke off, I could never get it glued together right and the car would never start with the broken sensor plugged in but would start with it unplugged.
Im not positive its the map but last time it acted up I jumped out and plugged the broken one in and it hasnt done it since. But yeah I agree I really need a tuneable ecu, Ive been keeping an eye out for an rtek on the forums but I think I want to get a true stande alone
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So I got bored and wanted to change up the exterior of the car a little, I've always wanted a carbon fiber hood with the big vent in the middle but never felt like spending the coin on it. So what better way to screw up your hood than with some cheap ebay mustang vents. oh and I happened to have a thermal camera so I took some cool photos, the temp technically raised with the vents in, but it was a hotter day and I probably drove it harder. You can definitely feel some heat coming out of them, hope they don't melt.
stock on the left, vented on the right
(https://i.imgur.com/KRt8u9I.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/u0uIQrE.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/G9QDn59.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/p8anHDD.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/3Li1UnB.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/QdDtJhr.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/fZ9VQcK.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/yRMQjQD.jpg)
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interesting, it looks like there's a difference for sure! I noticed the picture on the left looks like it's partially in the shade too, but still looks like the heat is more spread out on the vented hood.
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Quarantine has gotten the best of me, my car is now yellow.
(https://i.imgur.com/1W2IbN1.jpg?2)(https://i.imgur.com/ZghqDUr.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/CyGp7Y4.jpg?1)(https://i.imgur.com/sPOn4Rl.jpg?1)
Still need to finish the new front bumper, which is a giant pain, and put the side skirts back on.
Next project is going to be dying the interior tan, I always wished FC's came with a tan interior option.
(https://i.imgur.com/YvhBnby.jpg?1)
The daily has also gotten some love recently, new wheels
(https://i.imgur.com/fkenQrF.jpg?1)
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I love the thermal images of the car. I need to do some paint and body work on the convertible. Looking good. Surprised you went yellow with it. It looks good.
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Yellow is looking good!! Excellent choice.
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Yea, the yellow came out very nicely!
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did you wrap it or paint it? I dig the yellow actually
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It's a wrap, figured it would be less of an investment if I ended up not liking the yellow. I think I'm going to end up painting the car in a few years since my wrap job is not the greatest, but we'll see.
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I made a build thread for the first gen on the 7 club, and thought I had one going for the FC but I guess I never made one. So I started kind of a photo book of all the stuff I've been through with my car over the years. Writing it all out really made me step back and appreciate all this car has done for me and the places it's taken me without any real headaches. If you're bored go give it a read, not quite done yet and probably never will be but I've enjoyed the trip down memory lane.
https://www.rx7club.com/build-threads-294/banana-1147601/#post12436775 (https://www.rx7club.com/build-threads-294/banana-1147601/#post12436775)